I am very concerned that someone from qiara is posting here without making any declaration of interests who is clearly conflicted. As a health professional with a special interest in the field, I am unaware that the QIARA range has any compelling data to support these suggestions and recommendations

Hello are there any recipes for one, ? thanks Janie

I have just completed the 4 weeks of repair stage, following the recipe suggestions at the back of the cleverguts recipe book. I was feeling good, and my IBS symptoms have reduced however for the last week I have been waking up with symptoms similar to a hangover. I am dehydrated, and need to drink a few pints of water before my thirst is quenched. I also have really bad headaches and have some nausea. The headaches can last all day. Is this normal?

I guess it all depends. The FODMAP diet while it definitely helps some people, its extremely restrictive..and the more you restrict the diet, the more you restrict the biome (=vicious circle). I’d suggest go through the rest and repair cycle in Michael’s book and then see if you can cautiously and very gently increase the diversity of your diet. KEFIR is pretty potent and maybe you should start more simply. Good luck!

British Gut? No they don’t as for the other providers I’d suggest email them direct and asK !

No – sorry- but it won’t compare with your own home-made KEFIR! Some folks get really excellent results after a week or two but, as ever, “it depends”

Hi Glennbev: you would certainly be an obvious candidate for microbiome analysis. Meanwhile do post a 10-day food-drink-symptom diary and lets see what that reveals
Best wishes

Graham

Which anti-biotics and for what purpose? You might want to beef up your diet with additional pre-and-pro biotics for a couple of months too. Yes in general antibiotics kill of the bad guys AND the good guys but the extent very much depends on which antibiotic you take; how long for; whether its one or several courses; and how resilient your microbiome is in the first place

Hi Gislenus
Are you following good “sleep hygiene” procedures prior to going to bed/sleep. If you post more details (daily food/drink/exercise diary plus anything else of relevance I might be able to advise. NYTOL (there are a herbal and non-herbal versions) available from your pharmacy are OK but strictly short term. Ask your local pharmacist. Hope that helps. Graham

@pigcalledegg You’re welcome! I should note it does say it progressed to “vigorous exercise” so maybe that would cover HIIT. A quick google of high intensity microbiome brings up quite a few studies that indicate it is beneficial.
I recommend everyone in the thread listen to the current Radio 4 series “The Second Genome”, absolutely fascinating so far

Radio 4 three part series on the human microbiome – The Second Genome

New episode – “Dirt and Development”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09z4jxy

Investigates how our biome can be linked to the manner of our birth, and other ways bacteria is passed from mother’s to babies through breastmilk- i.e. bifidobacterium species. How antibiotics given to babies in the first few months of life might damaged their microbiome, and lead to auto immune disorders such as asthma and eczema.
Also covers research that shows that babies in households with pets in are much less likely to develop these auto-immune conditions.

Very interesting! Thank you for the update

Yes do see a doctor. Write down all symptoms. Check out tips for better sleep like going to bed same time every night and settjng alarm to get up same time. Keeping room dark and cool and well aired etc. Ive had sleep problems associated with thyroid in past and recently fibromyalgia so it’s worth getting checked out. Good luck.

@pigcalledegg I found this recent article on Psychology Today that actually indicates some very extreme exercise, in this case, a four day cross country ski march by a group of soldiers was harmful

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/gut-sensations/201802/the-effect-physical-exercise-our-gut-microbiome

“The leakiness of the gut increased by 60 percent and was associated with the activation of the immune system, measurable in the circulation. The observed exercised induced changes in gut microbial composition (increase in the less common taxa and decrease in the more abundant ones) and microbial function (metabolites) were associated with the increased leakiness.”

In contrast a group of lean and obese adults

“participated in six weeks of supervised, endurance-based exercise training (3 days per week) that progressed from 30 to 60 minutes per day and from moderate to vigorous intensity.”
the findings were

“Exercise increased fecal concentrations of short chain fatty acids in lean, but not obese, participants. Exercise-induced shifts in metabolic output of the microbiota paralleled changes in bacterial genes and microbial taxa capable of short chain fatty acid production. Interestingly, exercise-induced changes in the microbiota were largely reversed once exercise training ceased.”

So it seems that fairly vigorous exercise up to 60 minutes a day would be beneficial. Marching for 10 hours a day, four days in a row on skis with weighted backpacks not so much!

The problem is, when I go to sleep earlier I don’t get that full eight or nine hours; I usually wake up at 5 or 6 AM so I’m still getting the same amount of sleep I would if I was closing my eyes at 1 or 2 AM.I am aware that sleeping regimens need time to kick in with the cycle, but it’s been months now and I have no reprieve. Should I see a doctor? Take medication? Should i try taking medicinal cannabis like this one https://www.bonzaseeds.com/blog/tahoe-og-kush/ ??
Sucks, man. By like 3 or 4 PM I start dozing off again, and I come home and I just want to take a nap. Lack of energy, which impacts my gym regimen and general welfare. I don’t want to do chores, or work, or even play video games in my down time because staring at the screen tires me out.

Thanks Graham – I actually drink soya so perhaps a little less complex than milk. My question is a simple one of curiosity- this whole gut biome topic is fascinating!

Hi Loula
No one will be able to give you a specific answer because the evidence doesn’t exist to link the two variables (milk in coffee an akkermansia). You’d need to carry out a clinical trial specifically to investigate. That said, black coffee is fine. Milk is a really complex food with proteins, sugars and fats. So consuming milk will most likely undermine some of the benefits of fasting. That’s as close as it would be possible to call it..
Regards
Graham

With regards to the above, just warning readers of the naked promotion of one particular brand of pro-biotics by someone I assume works for Qiara but hasn’t declared any conflict of interests. As a health professional I have no particular axe to grind but I’m aware of nothing particular about this range that makes it uniquely recommendable

Antibiotics may be prescribed for your child to combat bacterial infections but can also disrupt the balance of beneficial bacteria in your child’s body. Containing a robust probiotic strain, Qiara Kids Probiotic may help to restore beneficial bacteria that may have been disrupted by the use of antibiotics and maintain a healthy digestive microflora balance.

Hello, please keep me updated via your newsletter. Thank you

Hi Loula16,

Milk does count as food, and can have a potentially inflammatory effect on the gut. Some of the components of it will make their way through into the colon and be digested by the organisms there. I don’t know if this would be sufficient to change the Akkermansia but would be tempted to leave it out during my fasting hours for these reasons to ensure the fast was effective.

Hope this helps. 🙂

Hi
Is anyone else able to answer my question please? Does drinking milk in my tea and coffee on a fasting day negate the idea of fasting and so it will impede the development of Akkermansia bacteria?

Thanks

Hi there. I know a product that is dairy-free which is perfect for those people who are lactose intolerant. It is a qiara milk. Qiara is a probiotic milk drink and we know that yogurt has priobitics. This drink will be a good alternative for you.

Apologies: that post reads as overly blunt/ rude, even for me (foot-in-mouth disease)!

I think I understand your question, but I am not sure you know what Dr M means when he refers to “fasting”.

You did not answer my question.

Whose version of 5:2 fasting involves not eating food? Have you read Dr Mosley’s book on the subject?

Hi Firefox
thanks for your reply. I really want to know whether the milk in my tea/coffee would not be constituted as fasting as Michael states that the Akkermansia bacteria like it when we fast as it lives on the mucous in our stomachs. I’m certainly not starving myself, I’m just curious to know whether the milk in my tea would undo my none eating of food. Does that make sense?

Have you read ‘The Fast Diet’ by Dr Michael Mosley? Fasting for health is about using calories wisely not starving the body. Whether you include caffeinated drinks or dairy products partly depends on the results of your detailed food and symptom diary (p.187 of ‘The Clever Guts Diet’).

Hi
I intend to do the 5:2 not because I want to lose weight, but because I want to increase the Akkermansia in my gut – should I not have any milk in my tea or coffee on the fasting day?
Grateful for any help!
Loula

I wonder why people from countries who regularly eat raw garlic (Spain, Italy, Eastern Europe etc etc) don’t show this erosion of the stomach lining then? Or why they don’t seem to suffer from gastro-intestinal problems as much as the West does? These countries have been eating raw garlic for thousands of years? I don’t understand. I eat raw garlic in dressings, guacamole etc and when I lived the middle east the women there used it as a foot poultice for everything, especially colds. I think Ill just carry on doing what I’m doing (including eating organic meat and eggs!).

When I started to make sauerkraut about two years ago, I wasn’t that keen on it, but now I love it. It’s definitely an aquired taste.
Since I have been eating it regularly, feel fuller, have far fewer sugar cravings, and find it much easier not to over eat.
Try adding spices. My favourite is cumin seeds. I buy them (an many other spices) in bulk from a local Indian shop where they are in cellophne bags of 100g -500g not in homeopathic quantities in minute expensive glass jars.
I eat it with my main meal – just add it to the other veg. Important to eat it raw though, to get the all important lactobacilli that ferment the veg.
My advice is keep eating it, and with luck the same things might happen to you. Good luck!

Hi, I have had a lot of gut issues and my gall bladder and appendix removed after ( accident – crush injury long story) and I get pain in the gall bladder area too so I really feel for your frustration and just have sensitive gut in general at times. My gastroenterologist in Melb has been open minded re IBS and Fodmap but stumped after that … Stephen Brown – he was very helpful

I also take digestive enzymes after eating meat which helps and Iberogast and Psylium Husk also really helped

Hello Firefox7275.

Thanks for your reply. That’s a great link and good additional considerations. There is certainly much complexity to external environmental influences on our gut. It seems as though if understanding the microbiome were a marathon, science has only lifted the first foot off the ground!

It’s pause for thought about our human influence on the ocean’s biome….

You may find online news articles about the “Surfer Biome Project” interesting.

Do consider the impact of other aspects of a coastal lifestyle on your microbiome; not just soaking in (and accidentally drinking) ocean water, but also the frequency of physical activity, exposure to strong sunlight, the variety of oily fish and other seafood in the diet.

If any such habits are seasonal, it is likely that some of the changes to your microbiome will also be seasonal.

Very interesting to anyone interested in our microbiome and its effects on our mental and physical health, biome DNA analysis and how exercise, illness, and food effect the biome makeup, fecal transplants, and future use of bacterial based drugs for illnesses

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09zgykv

features

Professor Tim Spector of the British Gut Project
Professor Rob Knight University of California San Diego
Dr. Janet Jansson of the Biological Sciences Division at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
Professor Eric Alm co-director of the Center for Microbiome Informatics at MIT
Lawrence David , Assistant Professor Center for Genomic and Computational Biology at Duke University
Curtis Huttenhower of the Human Microbiome Project
Trevor Lawley of the Wellcome Sanger Institute in Cambridge
Dr. Susan Joyce from University College Cork

next episode broadcast on Tuesday at 11 AM

Thanks Graham, will do.

Thanks for the advice Firefox. My Naturopath/Nutritionist has a string of qualifications and is so busy/helpful that people wait months to get to see her.

I have now been put on a course of Anti-Biotics. Will this kill off my gut biome?
If this is the case then how best can I build it up to it’s former glory?
Any polite answers much appreciated – thank you.

Raw cashews? Roasted chickpeas?

Hi to all, stumbled over ‘cleverguts ‘ while researching. Love the forums and information provided.
I am a 63 year old female. I had a thyroidectomy 7 years ago, I have a rheumatic fever heart, I’m pre-diabetic and have intolerances to amines, salicylates, amines and glutamates. Obviously I have a restrictive diet which I’m slowly getting sorted. My husband and I are going to the UK soon. Because of my pre-diabetes my diet has to be low carb and low GI, also I need to have protein for breakfast,lunch and dinner. Because we are travelling privately and staying in a variety of accommodation breakfast will be difficult, I can only have eggs every other day. I’m considering taking some beef jerky with me. The jerky is from grass fed beasts, organic and has no additives. However,because of my amine intolerance I shouldn’t have food that’s preserved in any way.
Any thoughts? Thanks, Bev

Hello team Clever Guts.
I have a question for MM and the research team, or anyone else who may know.
Is there any science regarding gut health and exposure to the ocean? I am Australian and, like most of us here, we live on the coast and regularly swim in the sea. For me, and most of my friends and family, a swim occurs several times a week in the warmer months. I am keen to know if, like gardening, there is any influence from ocean water on our microbiota.
Cheers from Sydney.

Have you tried the gut clearing smoothy with kiwi, Avocado, water, chi seeds?

also the breakfast chia post I have also tried with a combination or linseed and chia seeds with some fruit very nice gluten free lactose free etc

so far having begun to experiment with this I have not been doubled over with gut pain and things are moving much better

So Grateful my GP suggested reading this book! I am hoping the medical laxatives can go soon and never be needed again

I had got so scared of my gut creating that I had narrowed my diet to the same thing everyday to lessen the pain on reading this book I understand I had reduced my biome to just digest the same every day so they were having a ball and now have to get some friends to join them increase my gut function and well being

Topaz: Sorry to read you have been struggling with your wellbeing for so long. ((hugs))

Potentially yes *for food sensitivities or food intolerances* because the problematic component is likely to have been removed or substantially reduced. You hopefully already know to be cautious when testing ‘new’ foods or new supplements. But for anyone else reading please start low and go slow with dosing: ideally do not make any other changes to your diet or lifestyle during the test period. *If a true allergy is suspected, only retest suspect foods under medical supervision*.

I did not suggest any micronutrient supplements, only nutrient dense wholefoods. To what level is your naturopath/ nutritionist qualified? ‘Nutritionist’ is not a protected title worldwide, whereas ‘medical doctor’ or ‘registered dietician’ invariably are. Here in the UK registered dieticians must hold a recognised honours degree or higher qualification, and have one year of pre-registration experience, and undertake continuous professional development. I am not certain how far we have progressed in requiring nutritionists to become registered, but a few years ago level 2/ GCSE (age 16 qualification!) was acceptable.

HTH!

Hi: might be worth trying some Symprove pro-biotic which at least does have an evidence basis for its efficacy and side -effects

Hi Topaz
Yes but inulin and potato starch aren’t identical. Try taking the inulin at breakfast or lunch instead and see how you get on
Let us know?
BW

Graham

Hi
I agree with Firefox’s points above. A comprehensive food-and-symptom diary would be very helpful. Ditto fluids – what does your son drink? For example artificial sweetners are a disaster! It might be worth trying Symprove (in very low initial doses) which is my “go to” pro-biotic for irritable and inflammatory bowel conditions because, unlike most of them, this one has been comprehensively clinically trialled. We do actually stock the product if that helps
Good luck

Graham

Thanks Firefox. Are you saying that potato starch wont have the ‘nightshade’ effect? I am seeing a Naturopath/Nutritionist. My diet is good and I’m taking all the supplements you suggest.
I’ll start again with small doses of Inulin and build up.
I could do with a magic bullet having had ME/CFS for 23 years!

Topaz: whole foods, food extracts and nutrient supplements are not interchangeable. Resistant starch and inulin will support different microbial populations or communities. Potato starch extract will have a different effect on your health than whole cooked potato.

Similarly a single megadose will have a different effect on the microbiome than a series of modest doses. Start with an eighth or quarter teaspoon (level) and work up slowly.

The overall balance and variety in the diet is important in any supplement regime. Ensure you are eating the widest possible variety of prebiotic wholefoods, and wholefoods rich in other nutrients that support energy production and normal sleep patterns. These include magnesium (certain seeds/ cocoa), long chain omega-3s (oily fish), vitamin D (oily fish again), zinc (seafood esp. molluscs) and B group vitamins (many sources).

Lastly be patient and consistent. Healthy diet and lifestyle choices interact over the long term, there are no magic bullets unfortunately.

As I cant eat nightshades I bought Inulin powder. Two nights ago I took 1 tsp in milk at 7.30 and went to bed at 10.10 – didnt sleep at all well. Last night took 1 1/2 tsp sprinkled over rhubarb and yogurt at 7, bed the same time – very restless all night and woke about 4. Am I doing something wrong? Do I just keep taking it and hope it eventually helps me to sleep better?

I get really bad ibs and whatever else goes on in that Biome
Apple cider vinegar with mother I was unsure of but is going well.

The pumpking i.e king of breakfast!!! ( squash porridge ) lush
trying to increase colours and salad which I had shyed away from due to my ibs but going well so far I had narrowed down what I was eating as I was afraid anything would trigger off my gut
I am gently going with it and hoping to get a calmer gut and mind.
Farm food mixed berries make great chia mixed fruit jam while non in garden Although I added rhubarb the other day to mixed fruits
they also top up the chia pots also did some with a few raisins in
I did a big online order with chia seeds with real food source and other seeds yumm so I am well stocked up

oh and egg free stuff vital for me
3 1/2 oz buckwheat flour or garam flour tumeric, seeds and coconut oil 2ml /water mix 7ml makes flat breads

mood feels better

I have had an issue with significant spasms and recurring episodes of pain in my upper right quadrant, where gall bladder used to be, since having it removed (due to gallstones and pancreatitis) nearly five years ago. I end up having vasovagal response to spasms and passing out…most recently on bathroom floor resulting in broken nose. Numerous A & E visits as well as consultant appointments, including a syphincterotomy, have resulted to date in a diagnosis of ‘mystery’. One consultant wrote that on his report! I know I am not alone in having these kind of symptoms after having a cholecystectomy so it seems really odd that doctors here are so reluctant to identify that there are consequences of no longer having a gall bladder.

I think I have a variation of Postcholecysectomy Syndrom and am wondering what other people do diet wise to help themselves with this. It seems really strange that gastroenterologists are not able to discuss diet with me or only in a very condescending and ambivalent way …”eat a low fat diet”. I am interested to hear from others who may have similar issues and what works for them.